On Illness And Dignity

I wrote this as part of a reply reply to a post by bg's Little Sis on her board The Sanok Frenzy

I thought it was relevant to post here because Mrs_C has been bringing up my illness (fibromyalgia) and her "support" of me during it as a bashing point recently.

She has been pointing to my illness as both as an example of me abandoning my share of work in our marriage, and of her love for me, and how she was prepared to shoulder any load for me...

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when i was in the worst part of my fibromyalgia my muscle spasms were so bad i could barely move

i was depressed and physically unable to perform many tasks

my children were thankfully never mean to me about doing things like picking things up, or tossing something into the oven or other lifting and toting [and fetching]

i spent a fair bit of time apologising to them for my infirmity. they were gracious - i am forever grateful

mrs_c was less so...

i tried to do as much as i could - and would persist even when i moved terribly slowly [I have tremendous willpower about some things]

or when i had to lie down for awhile before gathering the strength to do the task

mrs_c would get frustrated very quickly (she's a real do it, and do it now kind of person) with how long it would take me to do things. she would usually do them first, or cut in while i was doing them, because the slow pace would irritate her. she says she was just trying to help and be supportive. i think i just pissed her off. she didn't realise that by doing this she was slowly stripping me of my dignity.

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a few notes on the above:

my doctor and specialists said they had never seen such bad spasms. they couldn't control them with some pretty extreme drugs. they were worried that the spasms would damage my spine.

i was on ultra drugs as well as in excrutiating pain for an extended period

my children, and my family, and her family all said i was pretty evenly humoured and still functional through this period

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mrs_c has a bad habit of cutting in when someone - like me or the kids - are doing something and she doesn't think they are doing it right.

i had to have a talk with her once (recruited her sister, who is a teacher, for support on this issue) about letting the kids do their own thing and make a few mistakes

she would say things like "but with help it could be so much better"

i tried to impress on her the idea that the dignity and reward of having completed a task on your own was more important in most cases (especially with a kid's project)

Wordcloud: Cadbury covers it...

This is the wordcloud for this blog. I thought it was interesting.

One of the things that struck me was the number of times the names of other bloggers/readers showed up in both of the wordclouds. The other can be found on my other blog.

Where the wordcloud was generated

Sex

originally started on Feb 1 - updated/appended on Feb 23

Since Christmas, Mrs_C has tried to be more sexually active with me.

I feel a level of guilt about having sex, because I worry that it is insincere (well, I know it's insincere...) to be considering leaving and then sleeping with her.

At the same time... uh, I like sex. A lot. Mrs_C is still an attractive lady, and I'm also honestly trying to see if things can work (sort of, I guess). Sexual issues are part of the mix.

Sometimes things are OK. Those are the points where we have ended up having sex - I dunno, I think 5 times since just before Christmas. More than the whole year previous to that point, I think...

Here's where it all gets messy in my head.

I feel like I'm being insincere. I also have the suspicion that part of Mrs_C's newfound interest in sex is (for lack of a better word) entrapment (or entanglement). Now, in one sense, I'm OK with being entangled and entrapped, it's just I don't feel like she really wants to do it - if I believed she was really interested in me and really wanted me, things would change and this marriage could work.

But she seems to be missing the point.

Some background:

Shortly before Christmas I got mad about her never wanting to have sex. I try really hard to be an understanding guy, because I really do understand that she's tired - and I'm willing to wait (months in fact!). I tried to make a gentle approach by caressing her. She obviously knew where I was going (my erection pressing against her as we spooned might have been a give-away...). She got mad at me and chewed me out. I desisted.

The next day I was a little pissed (not just about sex - read further) and was sullenly silent and perfunctory in my conversation when I arrived home. I was still pissed off the day after, too. That night she confronted me about it saying she believed I was mad at her for not wanting to have sex. She said I was insensitive to the fact that she was tired.

I tried to explain that it wasn't actually the issue of sex, but the fact that she could stay up late watching re-runs of Columbo, home renovation shows, and stock market shows, but then got choked about me cutting into her sleep time by wanting to have sex. I said that I was OK with her being tired and not wanting to, and that I was more than happy to let her sleep, it's just that she wouldn't be so tired if she went to sleep sooner instead of watching the above cited shows... And I'm extra glad that Columbo re-runs are higher on her priority list than sex with me.

Anyway, Mrs_C became convinced that sex was the issue, not the question of whether she was attracted to me enough to want to have sex, or the question of Columbo rating higher than me.

At one point I said that I had considered whether she was having an affair or not, and whether her lack of interest in sex with me was an indicator of such. I came quickly to the conclusion that this was not a likely causality relationship. I did tell Mrs_C that I wished she was having an affair, because then at least I would know she was interested in sex, and just didn't like me (yeah, I know, kind of a cheap shot). Because I could live with her not liking me, or not being attracted to me, but that it would really sad if she just never wanted to have sex...

She got drunk the other night and wanted to do it. Just like old times. Mrs_C gets drunk, chews me out, and then wants to have sex.

Anyway, we're back to no sex or even reference to physicality again, and I guess I can live with that for now.

---

Feb 23 addendum:

It's now several weeks later.

Much water has passed under the bridge.

Mrs_C wants to have sex regularly. I'm still suspicious of motive.

She says that she wants to change her ways with regard to sex. She says that she realises that she had abandoned that part of herself and our relationship and that she wants to fix that part of things.

She even says it's OK to just have sex for the sake of sex without the romance or "deep longing love" elements of making love.

On Standing Tall And Slumping Shoulders

Mrs_C decided that she was going to try to pin me down into staying on the weekend of Feb 4th.

I refused to give a positive response. As always, my response has been that I am trying to work through all of the issues we have for the sake of our children, and because she asked me to.

She said I had to give a response right then about whther I was staying or not - what would my answer be right then and there.

I said no. I would leave, if that were my only option.

Well, she burrowed into me for four days straight. She kept me up until the wee hours of the morning (5 am), and was at me all day and all night.

I haven't been worked over like that for years.

Finally on the tuesday i said "OK. I'll stay."

I had no fight left.

I almost threw up for the whole next day.

I had been standing tall. Feeling strong and feeling sexy.

After I said it, my shoulders slumped. And they're still not up high again.

A day after that she told me that she didn't hold me to it.

I have the feeling that someplace in there was an agenda to see see just how far she could push me before I'd break. Just so she'd know the new Cadbury was still weak enough to be bullied by her.

I haven't been able to get that high back again. As I discussed in previous postings, I felt strong and tall and sexy - it was better than any drug I've ever done.

Now I'm defeated. Busted. Feeling like a failure. Feeling like I've failed myself.

I'm trying to think of a method to get back in the saddle.

Books

On lara's blog Literally Speaking, she had a posting about books: Book-Tagged

Lara talked about the thousands of books she owns and has in her house.

One poster said:

"Let's hear it for libraries. Every time I'm tempted to buy a book, I ask myself if it wouldn't be better to try the library. Naturally, we all have favorites we want to own. But realisically, how often do we read the vast majority of the books we own? Perhaps the space and resources devoted to all these books could better be invested elsewhere. If nothing else, what are our kids going to do with all this crap when we're gone? Is there a place online to trade/share books?"

This poster thinks like Mrs_C. She pressured me to throw out or get rid of most of my books.

I did. I capitulated. I even ended up throwing out some books. I recgonise they were the kind of novels that a person buys for an airplane ride or when you are going home sick and know you'll be laid up in bed for a few days, but they're still books.

For me books are sort of like comfort food for my mind and soul.

All books are a piece of our existence, and destroying a book is destroying a piece of infinity - a piece of creation.

Burning books and destroying books before they have fallen apart physically is a sin and a crime of such proportions as to be indescribable. People who destroy books (even vile books) are only a few steps from those who commit hate crimes.

Books are only below children in the hierarchy of creation that we as humans have the ability to perform.

Books have a soul.

Being surrounded by books is like being surrounded by the souls of the books and a piece of the author.

I have gotten rid of some books because I didn't like the spirit of the book, and didn't want that spirit to be in my presence, but I have otherwise tried to keep most of my books since childhood - well that is beyond actual children's books - well, actually I had (have) some of them left.

All the dr seuss books, go dog go, and many others that gave me comfort and place in the world.

I took some of my childhood books to my parent's house before Mrs_C ditched thm in some cleaning frenzy. It was sort of like a refugee camp for my books. They were stored in boxes over there except for when my Mom pulls them out to give to kids (including mine) that may over there. It's funny that Mom never puts them back in the boxes - she always puts them onto her bookshelves.

My books are a part of my being and removing them from me is tearing out a piece of my soul.

I really have never forgiven having those books taken away from me.

Update

Yes, I know I should "shit or get off the pot"

as my mother would say. And each day I ask myself why I haven't walked out the door.

So why haven't I?

The reasons will become apparent (I think) through this update on how and where things are.

I stayed until after my daughter's birthday. As i mentioned in a previous post, i had/have no desire to cause a bad memory to crop up every year around someone's birthday - even Mrs_C's birthday.

I am dreading Valentine's Day. I don't have any intention of splitting around then either. I'm not sure how I'm going to handle the day yet.

Last summer I spent too much on my credit cards trying to buy my children's affection (which i already had/have, but that was before i even had the conversation with mrs_c, and i was wound up really bad - so i tried to engender good thoughts about me by buying stuff for the kids, and doing fun things together). I am bringing the cards under control/paying them off.

I have done a pile of billing for my business (which i still run on the side) to make sure that I get that cash in order to pay down the cards and generate a cushion for any departure.

I want to be financially prepared for when i go out the door.

I have also lined up a bunch of furniture and such from friends in the event that i need it. I don't have a problem with mismatching or second-hand furniture (for awhile anyway - as long as it's clean). I can always sew some covers (yes, i can sew). Anyway, even if i can't get it right, my Mom will help me... she has piles of sewing equipment.

I have been going to counselling and that has given me some perspective. As Kristin put it: "Counselling will help mature the decision". Mrs_C still refuses to go to counselling. At one time this fall after I told her i had started counselling she said she would go with me. I said that i didn't want to go jointly. I wanted her to go by herself to her own counsellor and understand what she feels. She has refused. The last time we went to counselling together she used it as a platform to describe how terrible i was and how terribly i treated her. Mrs_C stopped going and refused to go again after the counsellor told her she needed to change too. Specifically that she needed to get off my back (my paraphrase, not the counsellor's exact words). For the record, the counsellor made a list of things that mrs_c wanted. i achieved each and every one of those things on the list. and while mrs_c didn't like it when i asked, she agreed that each change had been attained at the time they were achieved.

I am continuing with the diet and exercise. I am stuck at between 37 - 40 lbs lost, but i am more toned than 4-6 weeks ago.

I look good. A lot of people tell me I look good. Men (hetero) and women. Friends and co-workers in my building. Mrs_C. My mother-in-law. etc.

I wonder how much of it is that i look that much better, and how much of it is the "fuck you" attitude i have adopted about many things.

I'm still the polite person i was, and i try really hard to be nice, but i have taken a very serious and abrupt anti-bullying stance. Whereas before i was always the peacemaker and the concilliator i am trying to adopt a more aggressive attitude when people are being unreasonable. You see, i always tried to find a way to make things work so that no-one else was made uncomfortable or disturbed when things didn't go quite as planned, or when a crisis would hit.

I'm still an extra helpful guy, but now i make them ask me instead of just taking it upon myself to run my ass off to fix someone else's problem.

I certainly don't look as tired. My allergies are down (diet and stress relief, i think). Because i look good, i dress to accentuate the physical changes. I cut my hair (shave/buzz head) every week, so that always looks cleaner, stronger, and more aggressive.

The snow will be gone soon.

It will be approaching 6 months since the conversation at the end of february. Probably a good time to do a serious review.

The One Thing She Did Wrong

Kristin wrote a comment on my last post that caused me to think for awhile, and I want to thank Kristin for making me think and develop an answer to the impression she gained.

I want to share some of the exchange with you because it provides a different frame of reference to analyse Mrs_C's thinking. Kristin had not read some of the other posts first, so the history was not readily apparent. (I don't want anyone, especially Kristin, to be under the impression that I am posting this in a retributive manner - I am grateful for having been caused to review my thinking from another perspective).

Hi Cadbury ... first time here; but I know you won't mind :)

I read the highlighted comment as the extension of an apology.

that quote:

"I thought you loved me so much you would never leave me, so I didn't ever consider what I might be doing to you with what I said and did."

Kristin posted a short while later with a different impression of Mrs_C's position.

My response and thoughts:

Kristin, when i received your post, i assumed that you might not have read through the entire blog.

but i wasn't sure

so i went back and read my last post "Mrs_C quote of the decade" and re-read Mrs_C's statement from the lens/filter your statement provided

to be honest, i think that mrs_c's comment was meant as an apology of sorts... or at least an explanation of her behaviour.

mrs_c has only admitted to making 3 mistakes in her life (outside of "professional" mistakes in some specific task or job she was doing [oh, i picked the wrong colour for the kitchen. oh, i should have started supper earlier. oops, wrong turn]).

i think her statement is as far as she can go toward an apology

i finally pinned mrs_c down on a response to the question: name one thing you believe you have done wrong during our marriage, or one problem that is your fault or that you are responsible for

her answer:

I shouldn't have been so hard on you or been so mean to you about the things you did. It was wrong of me to be that mean.

Once again, Mrs_C's only failing is to have been less magnanimous about my abject failures than she should have been.

Mrs_C quote of the decade:

Mrs_C said it a couple more times, slightly differently each time, but the core words are here:

"I thought you loved me so much you would never leave me, so I didn't ever consider what I might be doing to you with what I said and did."

did you miss that everyone?

let me repeat it in bold

"I thought you loved me so much you would never leave me, so I didn't ever consider what I might be doing to you with what I said and did."

Christmas Travel

We're going to visit my parents over Christmas.

I look forward to the travel. To going places with my children. I'm pretty knotted up inside about travelling with Mrs_C.

We have been civil but somewhat distant.

The trip is over some distance (air travel), and I am not sure how Mrs_C will make it through the "stress" of airports and plane switching and so forth.

I travel and have travelled, she hasn't done much of that.

Mrs_C gets stressed about anything out of routine. She gets stressed about special occassions. She gets stressed about any situation where someone might "judge her".

God knows how this will work out.

One of our really big fights this summer before we had the first "conversation" was her trying to tell me how to pack and travel.

I finally had to say: "You know, I've been around the world a few times without you telling me what to do, and I made it through all by myself. I think I'm competant enough to decide what to pack."

(yes, I really have been around [whole way] the world a few times)

My kids are pretty excited and Mrs_C and I have agreed to make the trip the best we can for them, and for my parents.

This trip is one of the elements that kept things from flying apart totally in our marriage. We didn't want to take it away from our children. I could have gone with them without Mrs_C, but it would have put quite a damper on things. At one point earlier this month she was saying she would stay behind and prepare the house for sale while I went with the kids (see post: Monday, November 28, 2005, So, I got played - again). Not ruining the trip and Christmas for the kids was what made me buckle then.

I'm about to puke my stomach is so knotted up. Not from the trip, but from whatever fucking bizarre off the wall shit Mrs_C will spew.

Or maybe she won't. Maybe she'll be contained and constrained in her reaction.

Either way, I'll be warm for a few weeks and that's a good thing.

I'll get to show off my newly more svelte self to my family.

I'll get to go on a plane trip with my kids.

They're excited and so am I.

OK, Cadbury, so what are you doing about it all?

Lara wrote (about me and her husband):

"The only person you can change is yourself."

"I can't force him to change, or to treat me like I think I deserve. But I can call him on his unfair comments. I can refuse to accept the undeserved slams. It is hard for me, as I tend to just take whatever he says & does... but I think the only way to fix things is to change myself to make the way he has treated me not work any more. For too long, he has gotten away with it."

One of my other friends said to me (when i decided to stay after the first go 'round):

"If she doesn't like who you are, maybe she'll like who you want to be."

---

As I whine on in this blog (yes, i know i shouldn't typify it as whining), I want to let you know about some of the things I have been doing. Since late September I have been:

1) losing weight - about 35 lbs so far
2) taken up daily exercise
3) undertaken a martial art

I am also:

1) going to a counsellor (being a guy who has always tried to deny emotion for logic, I think that some reflection of how I REALLY feel instead of how I SHOULD feel is in order)
2) writing down the things I think and feel (outside this blog)
3) making an EVEN STRONGER effort to do things with my kids (I have always been there for them, but I want to be there extra during this time)
4) i have begun learning piano (my kids are teaching me)
5) i have begun learning more than the pidgin french i currently speak (my kids are teaching me)
6) i have begun planning some of the travel i want to do and how to do it

---

I am focused and dedicated to becoming the person I want to be.

Not because it might attract Mrs_C - i'm pretty much done with that.

I want to live a life of exuberance, joy and travel, not a life of endless home renovations, chores, and hedge trimming (I like building things, just not endlessly, and to the exclusion of living life).

I want to greet each day with the freshness, enthusiasm, energy, and possibility of first light on a spring morning.

Oh, and one more thing, I'm going to be one of the muscular toned hard body guys the ladies at the VW CBB always pant over.

My daughter says she undertands it's not her fault

The other day my son [14] and daughter [10] and I were talking about things. In response to their questions, I had told them that it was still up in the air whether things would work out between their Mom and I.

My daughter said "Well, either way, I'm OK because I know that it's not my fault, and you guys need to just work out your own problems and make your own decision."

That is a siginificant change.

She used to believe she could impact our relationship and do something that would keep us together.

I was always worried she would feel guilty if we split - that she hadn't done something.

She's a real card-making, craft making, colour between the lines, teacher's dream child.

She has guilt issues and pleasing authority figures issues in my opinion...

She is my precious gem, but I can't relate to the please authority figures thing. Maybe scurry to please loved ones, I guess, but teachers? But she loves her teachers and her school and I'm pleased for her - she has had some just amazingly nice teachers (not my son, let me tell you. sorry if I'm dissing teachers buddha_girl - I suspect you would a teacher I would like. Did I mention I teach? [adult computer education])

Anyway,

she said she would be OK even if we did get a divorce, and that she knew it wouldn't be her fault or responsibility.

That's a big step, and a huge hurdle out of the way for me.

The impact on her was my largest anxiety subset.

Pending...

We had another "conversation the other night.

It always seems that Mrs_C has to find her courage in a bottle.

When we were dating and first married she drank a lot, and would often rip into me, but that tapered off when we had kids.

It was weird how she would drink a bunch, chew my ass off and then want to have sex. When we first got married it was bit of a pattern - she used to complain that I didn't want to have sex with her. I tried to explain at the time that I didn't want to have drunken sex with her after she had ripped me a new asshole. Psuedo-submissive play sex is one thing (or possibility), but actually being a doormat doesn't turn me on

SO anyway, the other night (around 10 pm), she had a few drinks and decided to broach the subject of why I was mad at her and why I would be thinking of leaving her. She then cut me off every time I tried to say anything - that's a standard tactic of Mrs_C - don't let the other person actually say anything. Mrs_C also knows that once I get going, there is almost no possibility of derailing my logic (underlying assumptions, maybe, but not the logic).

I got to listen to roughly three hours of lecturing about how I'm a lazy shitbag, and have been through most of our marriage. I had it explained to me that I have done only three nice things for her since we met, and that she has spent our whole marriage doing nice things for me, and I should be grateful - but instead of being grateful I'm just angry - and isn't that just a fine how-do-you-do... She also reminded me that I was unemployed and living a somewhat marginal existence when we met (no job yet after university - high unemployment in the area I lived in at the time) - her words were "Think about where you were when I found you...".

After I was actually allowed to speak - after she made several trips to the wine bottle and a couple of smoke breaks outside with appropriate slamming of doors (waking up my son [14]) - I explained that if I had been unable to do anything right in the last 17 years, maybe it was futile and I had better just be good about cutting her losses by getting out of her life as anything other than co-parent.

I proceeded to list all (well... lots) of the things that I have done to be apologetic for - and invited her to add any that i missed. I apologised yet again for my transgressions. I then asked her the same question I asked previously and cited when we had our first conversation:

Link to previous post: Wednesday, August 24, 2005: So, Mrs_C and I had "the conversation"

I once asked Mrs_C to name one thing she believed she had done wrong during our marriage, or one problem that was her fault or that she was responsible for.

once again the answer was the same:

She was unable to name a single one. I guess she's perfect.

I said that it was impossible that I had only done 3 nice things for her in our whole relationship. I then went on to cite a couple of dozen examples of me doing something nice (this barb/attack of me "never having done anything nice" has been thrown at me before, so i actually have a list that i have compiled and memorized for this situation)

I then asked her if she found it a reasonable proposition that any married person would have made no mistakes in 17 years in

their relationship. I asked her to just look inside herslef. She didn't have to name one, she just had to be honest with herself.

She couldn't rebut.

I described how I cared for her but felt an absence of passion. Physical desire, yes, attraction yes - but passion for the marriage or relationship - no.

She told me that I was the love of her life and that she would never love someone as much as me. She again said that if she

had known that what she was doing would drive me away, she would have never done it. Other special excerpts:

- "i thought you loved me so much that you would never leave, no matter what i said"
- "I don't want to grow old alone"
- "that's real nice of you, i'm a 46 year old woman, my youth is gone, and you're going to leave me now after 17 years, after you've spent me"

Things went in circles for awhile and I went to bed at around 3am because I had to work the next day. Mrs_C called in sick.

When I got home she told me that she had been thinking all day and that I had done plenty of nice things for her - she cited a bunch of additional ones I hadn't even thought of.

She said that she would wait for me to either find passion in our marriage or make my decision.

And there it sits this week.

Less hostility, more amiability.

Pending...

"WHY does she maneuver you to say you'll stay??"

Lara asked:

"I just don't get it. WHY does she maneuver you to say you'll stay?? Why does she want you there? She certainly doesn't TREAT you like she wants you there, so why not just let you move on? Does she just get off on being manipulative?"

---

I want to make sure that you are all aware of the following basic premises and starting conditions to my relationship with Mrs_C:

1) I dated a LOT. I was fully sexually active during my dating years.
2) I had no intention of marrying anyone when we met.
3) I had no real desire to have children (they are now the light of my existence).
4) On our second date I was sitting across from her sipping some wine and suddenly the thought raced across my brain "This is the mother of my children"
5) As I sat there pondering the improbability of the thought I had just had, this overwhelming yawning chasm of anguish at having to spend even a moment apart from this woman hit me. I waited over two years of dating to see if the feeling would go away - it didn't until just before Christmas 2004. It just vanished. I woke up one morning, and for the first time in some 17 years, the first thought on my mind wasn't wanting to make love to and hold Mrs_C.

Here's where I get really brutally honest:

I am not sure Mrs_C really loved me from the start. I have never been sure why she said she married me in the first place.

On good days I like to think she loved me.

On bad days I like to think that I am a pretty darn reasonable (more than reasonable) person and generally likeable guy, and that no-one else would put up with her shit, so I seemed a good choice...

I know that she cares for me - but is it really love in the passionate crying out sense? I don't think so.

I have had the following suspicions since we got married:

1) I was the only guy she had ever dated that would put up with her shit
2) I was so completely pleasant, benign, courteous, and friendly that she couldn't assign me to the same shithole all other men belong to (in her mind)...
3) She convinced herself that she loved me because I didn't frighten or upset her that way that all other men (except her father), frighten and piss her off.
4) Mrs_C was just looking for an appropriate party to have children with.

The above may sound weird, so it requires some other background:

- Mrs_C suffered abuse as a child
- She is attracted to men, but has a permanent hostility and distrust for men in general (with good reason, I have to add - she's been treated pretty shitty by a lot of men - not just in relationships, but professionally as well).

---

More as I think about the answer to Lara's questions.

Republished note to Briar Rose

This is part of an email sent to my friend Briar Rose. I think it is relevant to this discussion.

----

i apologise for involving you, even at this distance, in my pain

but it is what is happening

the thoughts and feelings of my friends let me know that i'm not alone

when it is over it will not be so bad

being stuck in the interim is the worst part - no moving ahead, the past withered

the thing that provides me with the most fortitude is this:

i say that i would die for my children. will i live for them as well?

they understand - they can see - that there is an undercurrent, but they are shielded from most of it. i can live through this time and see to it that their birthdays (clustered around these three months) and their christmas [we are all going on a trip togther] are not a time they remember with pain - i don't need them thinking of a break-up every year on their birthday. i don't even need mrs_c thinking about it every year on her birthday (same 3 month period) - that would be unkind.

----

again, i am sorry to expose you to my pain

Won't Get Fooled Again

Well, I've set a timeline in my own mind.

I have made up my mind that late february or early march will be departure day.

Let's see whether I can stick to it.

So, I got played - again

Had another conversation with Mrs_C on Friday night.

I had no intention of having such a conversation.

You see, on Tuesday night I made some advances toward her and got turned down flat. I don't just mean flat, I mean flat.

Mrs_C has been nicer in interpersonal dealings for awhile. I have been moody as shit (inwardly), I try to be pleasant and engaging (Mrs_C is quite sensitive to such things, I'm sure she knows I'm not quite the way I'm putting on. She doesn't mention it) in interpersonal relations. I am engaged and involved in family life and in Mrs_C's activities and interests.

My son asked me "If you're really mad at Mom, why are you being so nice?", my daughter asked "Does this mean there aren't any problems anymore?". Then she proceeded to tell me how I should take her mother on a dream date (daughter has been watching too much MusicTV, I think...).

I figured: if I'm just hanging around waiting for enlightenment or inspiration, it probably won't come. I'm going to adopt an obnoxiously pleasant attitude and demeanor, and see if it makes a difference.

I was interested and involved and paying for yet more fucking renovations, I gave her complete autonomy over our joint investments because she's into that now (after years of ignoring it, now she's become a stock market "expert" after reading a book, and making one good trade)

I don't give a shit about the money really. I have enough pension that the investments are more just pay off the house early funds.

So, anyway. Has it made a difference?

nnnnnoooooooottttttt (buzzer noise)

So, I get turned down bad the other night. Yeah, I know, but a guy gets worked up/horny and Mrs_C is still an attractive lady... I had myself steeled for never asking again. My steel melted.

I was just choked. It's not that I have a problem with being told no, it's just being told no every time. I sucked it up and just went to sleep that night, but was just bloody owly for several days. I was ready to leave on the spot. It just wrapped up all the whole deal for me.

She wants me as a companion, and a co-parent, but not as a lover and romantic interest.

She won't go out on "dates", she won't go on trips with just the two of us, she won't have quiet evenings at home.

I demand romance!!!!! (yes, really, I'm a guy)

I can't even get her to watch a romantic movie - all action and shit blowing up with her. Fuck. She cited "Once Upon A Time In Mexico" as a romance one time when I challenged her on it.

God Damn It!!!

When I raise going out I get told:

1) We cook better than restaurants do (true, but that's not always the point of going out)
2) There's no place to go (wrong)
3) It's too expensive (but we can spend hundreds and thousands continuously fucking renovating)

----

On Friday night we're in the vehicle going to rent a movie and she tells me that she's got her period and that if it hadn't happened we could have "gotten together" that night. I said "Oh, yeah..." She says, "No, really".

She then challenges me on whether or not I had been mad at her for the last few days. I said yeah.

I really can't figure out how the conversation went after that. I'm a really straightforward guy. I start in one place and move forward in a straight line. You can see me coming from miles away.

Mrs_C has expounded on her joy in maneuvering in arguments and disputes.

She got me to a place where I 'fessed up and said that I didn't think things were working. I did that because I knew she was maneuvering me, and even if I wasn't up to countering it, I wasn't going to have her pin me into saying I wasn't going to leave...

(To skip ahead, she got me to say I wasn't going to leave)

So, when I said it wasn't working, she wanted to know when we should split. I said January.

She said, Then I'm not going on this trip (over christmas) to visit your parents that they just paid for (many thousands of dollars for the whole family to go).

I can see her point in not going, but in my mind it's still just a maneuver for time - she got me to say I'd give our marriage awhile longer.

She knows that I don't break my word easily. She knows I am fanatically loyal, and that once committed to a course of action it is only mountains or immoveable objects that stop it.

So, I got played.

Again.

The above may not make much sense, but it's late, and I've just wrapped up a database query/report testing run I was waiting to finish, and I want to go home and sleep. Ask questions if you like. Maybe I'll elaborate on something after reading this again tomorrow myself

FEAR

This post was sitting for over a month in the can - I just didn't get around to publishing it because there was so much shit in my head that I couldn't express right - so I left it. Now it works as a stand alone (Nov. 28/05)

Before I begin, I want to say thank-you to buddha_girl for your words [comments on: Well, agreeing to stay was a waste of time.]

There is such a huge difference between what my head tells me and my emotions.

A huge part of what I am dealing with is the feelings (derived from Mrs_c's accusations) that a) I am actually entirely responsible for everything that is currently wrong in my life and my marriage; b) even if I leave to try to make things better for myself, my children will eventually come to despise me because their mother is right about me...

Yeah, I know in my head that it won't probably happen.

I know something about crafting language. I worry that I with my real world friends and with people here, I am just "smooth talking" everyone, and that I really am the untrustworthy, irresponsible bastard my wife has described me as.

I know in my head that she was abused as a child, both sexually (a male extended family member) and physically (beatings by her mother). I know that these sorts of behaviours are often multi-generational and that I am just a convenient target lots of times. But after 17 years, my teflon coating is worn down. I can't actually say that I ever had teflon coating, I had a place where I could put it. Now that place is all used up.

I know in my head the whole checklist of why I'm an OK human being, and who thinks I'm an OK human being.

When I become fearful. I try to think about the people who like me.

I think about the fact that I am the most selected (by parent vote) chaperone for school trips. I think about getting elected chair of various school projects.

I think about the fact that I actually have friends, and Mrs_C doesn't... (except for her sister).

----

I have fear that this is all just going to turn to shit

That I'm going to make a decision that will destroy everything

There are four lives involved. I don't care that much about how I might end up stuck in the mire. I worry about my kids. Yeah, I worry about Mrs_C.

And I did actually make a committment to stay with her for better or for worse.

So I stay.

So I wonder.

I think about might be's every day.

Well, agreeing to stay was a waste of time

The conversation described in the Thursday, September 29, 2005 post Apartment hunting: the aftermath ocurred on the last weekend of August.

It is now the middle of October.

Staying was pretty much a waste of time.

It worked better from a financial standpoint - two more months of shared expenses, not having to buy all the inevitable items for independent living, and god knows whatever other unforeseen expenses.

It works for the kids, I suppose - a couple more months of everyone still under the same roof.

Mrs_C has stopped ripping into me regularly. For someone who said she had no idea that she was constantly berating me, it sure stopped in a hurry when I said I wanted to leave - like a light switch it stopped.

The relationship is now almost without substance - except for parenting. We have always done that well.

Have you ever been on a business trip or something where you are temporarily sharing accomodation with another adult whom you are not friends with, but are on polite terms with? That pre-naturally calm, polite, over-polite consideration you give to your temporary roommate so as to not cause any offence.

That's what it's like.

I still don't think she wants to be with me. I think she just wants to see if we can be adequate companions.

She avoids discussions about us, or about feelings.

However, the home renovation express just keeps on rolling.

I have refused to pay for any of the stuff related to the new renovations. In the past I rang up credit cards and lines of credit to pay for it. Now I'm paying down debt and hoarding cash in the event of a split.

This sucks.

It's empty, and it's hollow.

Apartment hunting: the aftermath

My daughter (10yrs old) came upstairs as I said I had been looking for apartments and heard. Mrs_C said "Well you've accomplished your goal in hurting me. Why tell me that? Why tell me while we're getting ready to go out [ETA 2 hours later]? Why tell me that when we have people coming over for your birthday tomorrow? Why couldn't it wait until Monday? Why couldn't you have lied?"

(FYI: Ironically, I had previously been told that lying about any subject would be cause for divorce)

Our daughter was quiet as her mother walked out the door into the backyard.

I waited for a minute and followed.

As i went outside my Dad arrived with my son. Dad's timing has always been impeccable...

I had to send him away quickly.

I sent my son into the house.

I went to the backyard to talk to Mrs_C.

She refused to talk about it and said we would just get ready to go out and deal with it later.

Fine

----

We went to her sister's place for an immediate family only event. While we are both good actors, the folks there could tell there was some tension between us (you could see it in the way they looked back and forth between us trying to get a read on the situation.

After about a half hour Mrs_C, her sister, and her mother decided to go for a walk before supper (the men were cooking [BBQ]). Mrs_C said to the ladies "Let's go and I'll tell you all my troubles".

When they arrived back they all looked daggers at me. However, decorum was maintained. We generally socialised separately that evening.

----

Mrs_C has always had an issue surrounding alcohol. When we first started dated she always got sloshed and got really weepy (Even her Mom said once "oh, yeah, she's drunk and weeping again...")

I haven't the same desire to have a drink that she does (no, I've raised the roof a fair bit in my day - I'm no tee-totaller - but i have control), so I weaned alcohol out of our lives for the most part. Mrs_C followed my relatively abstemious lead (and silent disapproval when she got hammered) and didn't drink much throughout the last 15 or so years (having kids to be concerned about also reduced her propensity toward alcohol).

Did I mention that I can't stand the drunken Mrs_C? She isn't a fun drunk. Her emotions wheel out of control, she becomes maudlin, and then starts inevitably crying.

I can't stand it. I can't stand it. I can't stand it. I can't stand it.

----

Mrs_C got maudlin and drunk. Didn't say a public word at her sister's about the situation, though.

At the end of the evening I got her and the kids home. Got the kids to bed and went to face her where she was sitting in the family room.

We talked.

I explained that what I really wanted was someone who wanted me.

She told me that there was lots of guys who would have her, and that I was looking for someone I should just go.

I said I believed she thought I was a bother and a pain to have around. I said that I couldn't live that way anymore, thinking that she was only tolerating me. I tried to explain that I had used the word "someone" because I was already under the impression that she had no interest in me, and had therefore not used to word "you", already having discarded an appeal to her as pointless.

Mrs_C said she had no idea that I thought she didn't want me, and said it was a foolish and unbased impression.

I listed about 2 dozen examples of when she had told me to "et out". Yes, those words: "Get out", "Either its you or it's me, but one of us is moving out" - the examples go on. They were all pretty much to the point - no mistaking intent...

I pointed out that we had had sex very few times in the 8 months previous, and that she had gone to the point of telling me not to even touch her.

I listed a substantive number fo times that she had directly told me she would be better off without me, and the times she said that except for the children, she would have been better off if she had never met me.

She first said that if she had made me live that way, and that if she had put me through that kind of stress, that she understood why I would want to leave, why I have the stress related condition I have, and that "as a friend, as someone who still cares about you - if you are in a marriage that makes you feel that way, you should get out."

She then said that given the number of examples I cited, she understood where I got the impression she didn't want me around. Then she said she didn't really mean it and only said it in anger. Well, she meant it at the time, but it went away with her anger each time. She said she would have never said it if she thought I took it seriously.

She started to cry.

She let out a wail of complete anguish that slipped deep into my soul. She said "I don't want to grow old alone."

She then told me she really did want me to stay with her. I agreed to stay and to try to work through things.

As my queasy stomach turns

I went out on the weekend after my last post. I looked at apartments.

I picked one near our house so that my son could go home to care for his pets after school (he wants to move out with me).

I went home and Mrs_C asked me where I had been so long. I thought about lying to her, but chose not to.

I had the suspicion that she thought that telling her where i had been was an expression of anger, not an expression of intent. I wanted to underline the fact of my intent for her.

There might have been a subconscious desire to hurt her in there someplace (her opinion), but my real and largest motivation was to not lie.

----

I have lied to Mrs_C in the past. I have regularly lied about my feelings - being hurt or angry or whatever (I truly hate discord and fighting [part of the reason I've rolled over for almost 20 years with Mrs_C]), and I lied about the state of my business (about 10 years ago) - we had a rough spot in the business and Mrs_C was on my back every day because I was working 14-16 hours a day and cash was tight. I negotiated some financing and tax issues without discussing them with Mrs_C until after the fact (BTW - she was not a partner/employee and had told me she didn't want to be in the operation). The deals allowed me to spread some of the costs/lost revenues of my business partner's non-delivery of some work over a few years.

I have been told that not telling her in advance was an error of biblical proportions. It probably was. I was pretty freaked at the possibility of being sued and took the easy way out (easy in the interpersonal/marriage sense). I was trying to avoid having her on my back as well as the clients. When Mrs_C gets stressed about something (even if it is not my fault - like something her boss did to her at work) she will spend a lot of time (sometimes days) ripping into me. At the above mentioned time I just couldn't cope with more on my plate.

Since then Mrs_C has brought this situation up again and again as her example of how she can't trust me.

I said then, and I say now, I was trying to avoid the pain and suffering of having to explain the situation to her (and the lengthy diatribe that would have followed) and having to explain how this "failure" could have happened and why hadn't I listened to Mrs_C's plan for the business.

Her plan for the business usually involved re-telling me my own analysis of my own mistakes that I had told her a few days before.

I was in a highly technical computer/internet business. She didn't know shit about the business - still doesn't.

My business partner had some skills I didn't. We worked on mostly separate elements of our projects.

I found out he wasn't doing some of his work for some clients and had missed a bunch of deadlines (he subsequently had a nervous breakdown).

I hired out, fixed the problems, negotiated the abrogation of some of the contracts where the relationships had deteriorated to the point of no return, and wound down the business and the partnership. I was going to continue in business on my own.

Mrs_C had been instrumental in driving out a third partner when the business had started, and had been instrumental in driving away some contract employees as well - she was highly aggressive toward them and all but accused them of stealing from us.

She had been telling me to get rid of my remaining business partner since pretty much we started the business (At the time we started the business he was one of 3 people in our entire province that had the specific skill that was needed - the other two were already employed, and he happened to be a friend of 15 years).

----

No - there was no bankruptcy. Yes, there was financial pressure on me, and it left me paying off some debt for several years. Mrs_C's cash flow was not disrupted. My take-home income was exactly the amount I had predicted and she had agreed was adequate when the business plan was created. It just wasn't enough to deal with Mrs_C's newly enlarged spending plans on our house, and didn't allow the vacation she had decided we needed to go on.

I know it may sound like I am gratuitously bashing Mrs_C but she has a history of moving targets throughout our relationship.

I folded the business, mostly because she couldn't cope with what she felt was the lack of certainty of income, and got a salaried job. My job income was higher than I was making in the business and was adequate to make my payments and have enough to finance the expanded spending plans as presented to me by Mrs_C when I wound down the business.

Her new plans got upgraded further. My income was then short of the new plan/target. My inadequate contribution to the family and our finances have been subsequently pointed out.

(oddly enough, whenever my income goes up [as i got raises and better jobs], the new spending plans always just outreach my new income)

----

Back to the present:

I didn't feel like lying.

I told her I looked at apartments.

She looked like I'd punched her in the stomach.

----

Soon: the aftermath