some excerpts from an email exchange with Smitten (names removed - if you spot one send me mail right away, please)
yes - the subject line of that email was the same as the title of this post
this is in regard to a birthday dinner for her son - a dinner that got rescheduled from last wednesday to this monday - a day that is when my kids are with their mother.
i had discussed the option of them either obfuscating or flat out lying about where they were going with me
---- Me ----
talked to the kids about a "cover" story for monday
suggested the political fundraiser idea
Son said
"i vote for the truth and when she starts to bitch, i tell her to ---- my ----. and when she whines about it afterwards, i battle her. i don't need to take her shit!"
I pointed out that Daughter has to live through this too, and might not be as comfortable as a battletoad
Daughter chimed in with this view
Son said "Then when she bitches at Daughter, I battle her again!"
Daughter said "but you're not always there, Son."
Son said "Then i battle her again, and make her life so miserable she never attacks you on it again, Daughter. And then i battle her again the next time. I don't care about what she says anymore. I view confrontations with her as more of a sport."
I left it with the two of them to work out how they felt. i will discuss it again to see what resolution might be gained.
---- Smitten ----
Wow, that is interesting.
It is good to hear that he is willing to stand up for the truth, even
knowing the consequences.
And in the end he is right - she will eventually stop her crap and just
have to accept life the way it is.
But there will be some pain along the way.
If everyone knows what the pain will be and is willing to work through it, making coping strategies and defences, then it is worth it. Well worth it actually.
Hmmm
From what you have told me, you have taught him to stand up to unfairness; to take a stand in a just cause that he believes in; to do the right thing even if it means hardship for awhile.
And now he is.
---- Me ----
> It is good to hear that he is willing to stand up for the truth, even
> knowing the consequences.
> And in the end he is right
yeah - he is right
i was trying to ease things for Daughter
i guess i'm not as strong as Son that way
lying and pirouettes worked for me to ease the immediate pain of most encounters in my life
> From what you have told me, you have taught him to stand up to
> unfairness; to take a stand in a just cause that he believes in; to do
> the right thing even if it means hardship for awhile.
he didn't model/learn it from me in my personal life and dealings
maybe in dealings with the school or outsiders, but not close to home
> And now he is.
yeah
self-confidence and surety will do that for a person
whether it's innate strength, or having been sheltered from being torn down by those you love
it's an interesting vector change to see Son do what he does
to not care what anyone says about him
even if it leaves him alone
(as he has discussed recently in relation to other kids and friends)
----
my Dad said to me
"You seem to be prepared to mix it up with your opponents in your student politics - at the drop of a hat - but don't seem to be able to to do that with [stbx-Mrs_C]. You seem to have some trouble standing up for yourself when it's in your personal life."
there is an irony to the source of that statement
----
but,
perhaps part of it is also protectiveness
perhaps he is protecting Daughter and I
maybe that's the behaviour he saw modeled
---- Smitten ----
> i was trying to ease things for Daughter
> >i guess i'm not as strong as Son that way
You are a natural protector - and that is strength. Of course you want to ease things for her - you are her father and you care. She is still a little girl who is influenced into doing things she doesn't want to do just because she is young, and that is unfair.
Perhaps some of your reflexes are that you know what it is like to be where she is, and no one protected you
Over this past year Son has learned not to fear the wrath of "mother". He is seeing her with adult eyes which is liberating. She does not have the power over him that she once had (nor over you) and he is freed from being a victim. He now has power and is relishing it (e.g. the comment about confrontation as a sport). I see this as a positive. He is fighting back and is on the other side of the pendulum where he may want to get a bit of revenge.
Is that wrong?
Maybe yes, maybe no... but to find his middle ground and understand his own boundaries, it has to be done. Either now or later.
Each victim must face their abuser and take back their personal power. How each person does it is different, and Son is doing what feels right for him.
Sounds like he wants to stop the bullshit and the lies and face things straight on. He is tired of her abuse and knows that tip toeing around it will not change it. He no doubt has tried different methods over this past year and has come to the conclusion that no matter what he does or how he does it will change her behaviour, so why should he try so hard? He may understand that to tolerate abuse and to let her manipulate the household is license to let it continue. And he does not want that.
And he knows he has you as mental and physical refuge. And that my dear is what is giving him his own strength to deal with his abuse and heal. You did not have that advantage.
As for you and your strength - it is a different path and process for you. You are also confronting people/things that you would have not done before. From what you have shared, the "lying and pirouettes" are not an automatic response for you anymore. (?)
---- Smitten ----
> it's an interesting vector change to see Son do what he does.
> >to not care what anyone says about him
> >even if it leaves him alone
> >(as he has discussed recently in relation to other kids and friends)
As you have said, he is a different kind of person. He has the abilities to make friends and conform to the norm but chooses not to. [a non-conformist coworker of Cadbury's] seems to be doing just fine.
> >but,
> >perhaps part of it is also protectiveness
> >perhaps he is protecting Daughter and I
> >maybe that's the behaviour he saw modeled
Perhaps. But he also saw that the protecting had a limit. It couldn't stop everything and someone always lost in the end (in this case you). Another guess is that he has already been as hurt as much as he can be. So what has he got to lose?
He has a trump card and wants to play it.
There is no better time to play it than on Monday when he can bring her arch enemy into it.
And another thought is that he has seen Daughter start to protect herself. He sees the strength building within her.
“All I want is for the baby to be healthy!”
8 months ago
9 comments:
In my humble opinion, your son is right. Lying never really helps in the long run, it is just sometimes more convenient. He will work things out much better with his mother if just lays the truth out there. He might even have a chance of bettering the relationship if he presents the truth in the right way. In that case he will become a role model for your daughter who might learn from example.
Your son, though, shouldn't look at this whole thing as a battle or confrontation, but rather as the development of his own inner strength. He needs to be mindful that the woman he is "battling" is still his mother and he needs to show her respect as such. From reading you, I don't you intend to pass on the lesson to your son that disrespect towards or lying to his mother is the right way to go. I think the the best way to go is for him to say, "Mom, I love you, but this I what I am going to do." Then, he doesn't rise to the bait of her manipulation, but relies quietly on his inner strength.
That behavior is an example that will make him a leader in everything he does.
MR. C. . .I think you are a fixer . . . misleading the X is your way of fixing. . . Son has the right idea, however, I wonder if he is reacting as he does because you don't stand up for yourself. It almost seems that son's comments are meant for you too because son wants daughter and you to know that he will be your protector. . . . Just an observation . . . I think you are doing well, but I still think you don't value you. . . hard to do when you have been emotionally battered for years.
Ciao
and where does the emotional exhaustion of a 12 year old girl, who is constantly emotionally battered, fit into the "do the right thing" moment?
i floated the idea of a cover story to try to protect her. should she be demanded to stand up the same way and adult or even a 16 year should be?
where does the girl fit in?
Telling the truth is the best thing... gives the stbx no ammo for future fights if she finds out there was a lie. But with the daughter involved, I don't really know. We know what your son thinks, and it's great that he WANTS the chance to stand up for himself and others. Maybe you need to ask the daughter again what she thinks, because she'll obviously face some of the consequences too. See if she thinks she can handle them. Because that's a tough thing to dump on anyone, and if she can't stand up to the fight, the cover story might be a good one. Letting your son fight his battles is great. But putting someone into a position for a fight they're not up to isn't.
And as the parent of an almost 16 year old, I have to also wonder if he doesn't just want a fight for the sake of sticking it to a parent. My hubby can be difficult to deal with, and I know that my boys relish "sticking it to him" at times.
I agree with Haaa in that your son needs to still learn to respect his mother, but stand up for himself at the same time.
Sometimes we find strength in our parents' weakness.
I'm just so sorry that your children have to go through this. Divorce forces children to grow up too fast.
W.
Oy vey. This is too much to think about any day of the week.
I hope things go well lno matter what the kids decide to tell their mom.
I'm so Polyanna sometimes.
PS
Battletoads made me CRACK THE HELL UP! I may use that moniker today. Just because.
In my distant opinion ... listen up, Cad: Smitten is wise.
So are you, but your wisdom is better when tempered by hers. For the love of God and all the people here who read you, keep listening to her thoughts. Smitten is very, very special.
And so are you.
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